Wobbray updates

 So I've been continually trying to improve WobbRay. My original team has become a bit outdated (most people I see still use my sample team from 2022-3 and I cringe every time I see it).

The main evolution I think, is the rediscovery of SD + water move Rayqauza. As mentioned in one of my previous blogs, I used to really disrespect SD Waterfall Ray citing like no power. However, this was in the setting of people using silly things like SD Lum Ray with Waterfall, so of course it was going to be crappy. SD + Life Orb, on the other hand, and especially with Adamant nature has really firmed up my preference for using SD Ray on Wobbray builds now. Water move Ray is excellent, because it address a number of things for WobbRay - the lack of power vs support Groudon (now OHKOs at +2), Heatran (previously very annoying, now is a non-threat vs SD Ray) and Ho-oh (still not quite OHKOing, but Aqua Tail does like 90% so you can even Espeed a lead Ho-oh for some chip after you set up rocks, as long as you don't get burned and they don't get up a Sub and immediately go for the kill with Ray). You still maintain like a damage output of like 80-90% damage on Zong after SD. The main thing you lose now, is that you can't immediately land a kill on Forretress so if you don't flinch it with +2 Waterfall you are losing your hazards. Ditto to Skarm because they can WW you out. Also, the fact that Adamant is now preferred means sneaky fast Gira-Os can now just straight up kill you, something I found super annoying on the ladder, but thankfully in tours is still relatively rare (exception being the hyw Rain/Forry/Kabu team).

Again, Aqua Tail and Waterfall both have their advantages and disadvantages - see my previous blog on the important calcs.

I think the gold standard most cutting edge Wobbray team should now be the following: https://pokepast.es/deddd03187e82387

*Keep in mind that the Wobbuffet EVs are NOT optimised - Wobb EVs are a strictly guarded national secret of mine, unfortunately

Other non-core Pokemon that have been trialed

So in my original thread (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dpp-ubers-serve-and-volley-classic-deo-s-wobbray-sun-ho.3761533/) where I laid out the roles of each mon - the non-Deo-S/Wobb/Ray/Don slots can have some variability depending on what you need. Recently I think there are some other cool options that can be trialed for some of those other roles.

https://pokepast.es/57668553a36c43ac

Infernape - Speed control/Stalltwo check, replacing Mewtwo

Choice Scarf Infernape is pretty cool as a Scarfer - mainly because it can hit quite hard in the sun, it outspeeds things like Kabutops if it has to (Aqua Jet still beats you), and it can U-turn on things. It is decent against Stalltwo which traditionally is a big problem for Wobbray. You easily 2HKO with sun Flare Blitz. Sleep absorbing is nice with this too, because all 3 moves threaten to kill Darkrai if it's sunny.

The main problem is that Flare Blitz kills itself so you have time use it pretty sparingly.

https://pokepast.es/c7428acdac0a79a3

Weavile - Speed control/wallbreaker, replacing Mewtwo

Weavile really takes advantage of Wobb being around, I think. SD + Dark move really pressures a lot of stall cores with Lugia/Cress, Gira(-O) as their main physical answers. It's also not totally terrible against offense because you can still speed check something with Ice Shard (although be careful against something like +1 DD Ray since they can still outspeed you with Espeed). Wobb also helps you remove shit like Scarf Dialga.

There is a bit of a choice to be made re: Night Slash and Ice Punch. I prefer Night Slash because it pressures Lugia/Gira/Cress more which is most of the reason why you'd use Weavile in the first place, but Ice Punch hits Groudon much harder. That being said, I think it's way more valuable to hit the Psychics and Gira more than it is for Groudon.

https://pokepast.es/3fec701aec19e955

Dragonite - Speed control/wallbreaker, replacing Mewtwo

This started out as a bit of a meme but actually worked a bit better than I hoped. I've wrote about this in a previous blog so I'm not going to too much detail here, but the reason that I'm not using Salamence is because Dnite offers speed control with Espeed, which for a defense strapped team like Wobbray is quite invaluable. Bring this out early to rough up some stuff like Bronzong or Cresselia and then aim for a later clean with Ray.

https://pokepast.es/e32332caf4c9eeb8

Shaymin-S - Speed control/stall annoyer, replacing Mewtwo

Skymin is too hard to use, I think, but if you can get it working it can potentially be quite potent. The EVs let you live Zong Payback and just SubSeed it to death, and you can also potentially break through some walls with SpD drop and Air Slash flinches. That being said, you need to 1) hit and 2) get your flinch, which can be unreliable.

https://pokepast.es/89e4a44a656e997f

SD Mew - Wallbreaker/Mewtwo check, replacing Scizor

SD Mew is interesting because it gives you an offensive Mewtwo check because it can't really KO you with anything and you'll always threaten boom or SD Sucker Punch. I've explained this in a previous blog too so I'm not going into too much detail, but the idea is to trade this with a wall or opposing Steel (like Cresselia or Skarm) to free up Groudon to sweep after. Gira-O thinks it can switch in, but you should 2HKO it easily with Dragon Claw and Sucker Punch after an SD.

https://pokepast.es/7907efa79dc02246

Scarf Dialga - Speed control/sweeper, replacing Mewtwo

Highlord used this in UPL last year, which to be fair I'm not a huge fan of but it's fine I guess. It's a bit safer because you have some better speed control, but the you'd have to play Darkrai really well to break through stall, something HL managed to do because he's HL. I'm only guessing at what the Scarf Dialga moves are, it only revealed Thunder Wave.

https://pokepast.es/ea19b1b435ce5df3

Jirachi - Speed control/stall counterplay, replacing Scizor

This version was used by Splendid Silver Star in DPPPL (at least what I think the sets are). I don't particularly endorse this because again, like the Scarf Dialga variant, the stallbreaking potential is a lot more limited, although I can at least see this being a bit better because you can Hwish some sweeper back to get another opportunity, also shielding something from Toxic Spikes potentially also.

Other approaches

Azelf or Mew + back Spiker

Azelf is one my babies that I've been optimising in the past year or so. See my previous blog for set description. So basically, you know how I've always advocated for dual hazards on Deo-S because you get to save a slot for Wobb or breaker. That said though, I feel if you have something else to offer outside of being a hazard and generic support mon (like support Groudon), then it's a bit more justfiable. Azelf adds a bit extra because it can explode, as well chip things like Sash Ttar and set up rocks later. Mew is similar.

In terms of other Spikers that can be used - again, you'd like it to add some sort of defensive value to the team or drive forward offensive momentum, so no standard Forretress or something because that's just free Kyogre/Dragon switch and stuff. Forretress itself is potentially an option although I haven't tried it out in a more fast-paced/offensive way yet, but potentially you can use like a Custap Forretress with Spike/Boom/Spin or something with some speed to outspeed opposing Forrys and slower mons like Blissey. Other options I've messed around with that work (sort of) are 1) back Froslass and 2) Scarf Skarmory. Back Lass is good because it shuts down fat CM Mewtwo very well which tends to threaten Wobbray if Wobb is weakened, as well as adding spinblocking of its own. Scarf Skarm sounds totally crazy but it's actually got some unique features that makes it worth using. Basically, I took the idea from OU when it used something similar when sleep was still allowed. The idea is taking sleep and being able to click any of Spikes, Whirlwind or Brave Bird is beneficial. On top of this, it's not a bad one time sac for Draco Meteor - basically switch in, click Spikes then die. It also is not a one time Groudon check.

Other Spikes users that I've wanted try that I haven't really made work are Qwilfish and maybe the aforementioned Forretress. Qwilfish on sun sounds funky, but like Froslass, it's good at 1v1ing CM Mewtwo and can absorb Toxic Spikes. If rain is up you may be able to revenge something with it too.

Anyway, here are some of the ideas that I had:

https://pokepast.es/f9cba9f63a558a85

Scarf Skarm

Some major issues with team exist but fun to play with. The idea is Skarm is your Darkrai and Draco switch all in one, which makes it very flimsy but it's supposed to be really fast paced. The funniest MU has to be vs Hariyama lead. They Fake Out as you go to Skarm, and think they can Close Combat you only to get OHKOed by Brave Bird. Yum

Main issues are

1) Fast Gira-O will survive Dragon Claw from Ray at full health and outspeed Gira-O, so without some chip it's killing something. Normally I'd probably just sac Skarm or Gira-O to chip it so Ray can kill it after

2) Darkrai - Skarmory is like the only for it really otherwise after Nasty Plot it kills everything. Sash Darkrai lead is especially annoying. Basically if Skarm rolls Spikes with Sleep Talk you're just fucked lol. If it rolls BB or Whirlwind when it's still salvageable. If you hit Darkrai with BB then you can still revenge with Ray Espeed.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ubers-922295?p2 => replay vs django from DPP Ubers Open to illustrate how it's used

https://pokepast.es/6c7b241e2042da40

Back Froslass

I wanted to use Azelf with this but the problem again is lead Darkrai. Mew at least can tank 1 Dark Pulse and shrug off sleep with Lum and then you can U-turn -> Bullet Punch or U-turn back, or just set up Stealth Rock and be done. Froslass can help you revenge kill some things, and can at least Twave a Mewtwo. You can use a non-Scarf Froslass and just use back Lass with like Twave/Spikes/Dbond/Taunt, but this one lets you Trick Stalltwo which is pretty nice, and you can always trick a fat CM Mewtwo or Twave it in a pinch. You outspeed all Garchomps/Rays/Mences and can also Twave a rogue Kabutops if you absolutely have to.

https://pokepast.es/d4a6abe0e40bf3da is the Qwilfish set that I've been wanting to build on Wobbray or just sun in general. I haven't been successful with it but I think it has potential. Again, its main objectives are to mess with CM fat Mewtwo and absorb Toxic Spikes. The EVs and Wacan Berry let you tank a +1 Thunder from fat CM Recover Mewtwo and Twave/boom on it, while the speed lets you outspeed the 253 Spe BP Mews and Taunt them before they can get a speed boost off if you position it after Mewtwo blows up.

There's a chance that Farceus is freed (small, but not impossible) so this may be the last reg Wobbray update for a bit. That being said, there will be a separate blog coming re: Taunted leads + Giratina-O combos that we can potentially add Wobbray to as well, so there may be more content on this topic coming.